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Jun. 17th, 2008

  • 10:15 PM

One more post for the evening.

So, I really want to do some socially responsible investing. I have some money I can use for it, and it seems like a good thing to do. The only problem is finding a good fund. I looked at a number of funds, and they all more or less seemed to have two problems. First, they had high expense ratios. Now, I am willing to have a higher expense ration than I would have in your boring old traditional index fund, but they were pretty much all quite high. Those that were not high were funds that were not rated highly. This is a socially responsible investment I am going for. I already donate money (although I am not good at systematically donating all of the money we set aside for donations). However, if I am going to invest my money, I want my investment to have a decent performance (not necessarily stellar, but at least decent).

However, I could swallow all that if I felt that these funds really fit my desires for a socially responsible investment, but they do not. Most of the socially responsible funds I looked into were socially responsible by virtue of avoiding vice industries and making sure that the companies they invest in have good labor and environmental practices. Now, these are good things (well, I actually do not care about the avoiding vice industries part, but watching the labor and environment practices is good). However, when I do socially responsible investing, I want to invest in something that actually has impact, not just a more virtuous version of the same old same old.

What actually fits my desires perfectly is microfinance. It is something that actually makes a differece in the lives of those who are in need while still being an investment. However, none of the microfinance organizations I know about is suitable for a small scale investor like myself. For example, Grameen bank requires, amongst other things, a $50,000 minimum investment to invest in the bank. It is going to be awhile before I have enough money invested that I am willing to invest that much in one place.

I will keep my eye out for other investment opportunities that fit my criteria, but I sure wish it were not so difficult.

Comments

( 23 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]juxtapose_42 wrote:
Jun. 18th, 2008 05:45 am (UTC)
Perhaps the $50,000 could come from more than one person... a group of smaller investors each shouldering a share of the investment and risk. Microfinancing of microfinance...

- Jux
[info]kitty_tape wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 04:23 am (UTC)
Which we could finance with microloans!
[info]safiiru wrote:
Jun. 18th, 2008 05:53 am (UTC)
I have a Roth IRA with Domini, which was the best option I could find ideals-wise back in... 2001-2002ish? And it had decent performance, relatively speaking, although I'll admit to not really keeping track of that much lately.

One thing they note is that a big part of what they do is not just avoiding vice and prioritizing companies that have good labor / environmental / etc. policies but going to shareholder meetings and making proposals. Apparently socially conscious motions from non-trivial (but still not massive) shareholders have a better chance of success than you'd think - perhaps this is because they can be crafted to play off guilt that other shareholders usually deal with by not thinking about the issue, but whatever.

I realize that this is not quite the impact / not just the same old angle that you are looking for, though.
[info]kitty_tape wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 04:23 am (UTC)
I'll look into that.
[info]big_bad_al wrote:
Jun. 18th, 2008 07:30 am (UTC)
Darn! Several months ago I came across what appeared to be perfect for you, and I can't find it again. It was a microloans system where you lend someone in a third world country, like, $1,000 to build something small but important for starting a business (buy land for a farm, or buy a vehicle to get produce to the city more easily or something), and they periodically send you updates on the business, and if they do well, you might even get your money back.

but I have no idea what it was called or where to find it again. :-(
[info]partly_cloudy wrote:
Jun. 19th, 2008 01:05 am (UTC)
Argh! I saw the same thing and can't remember it, either. The article highlighted how the organization gave loans to women in Africa to run businesses. It had a funny name with a K.

Thanks, Google! www.kiva.org
[info]big_bad_al wrote:
Jun. 19th, 2008 06:53 am (UTC)
Yeah! That's it!
[info]kitty_tape wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 04:23 am (UTC)
Yeah, I've seen Kiva, and it seems promising, but peer-to-peer lending is also more work than a mutual fund. I want someone else to have to put in the effort. =)
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jun. 18th, 2008 02:44 pm (UTC)
Socially Responsible Investing
You could consider talking to a broker who specializes in socially responsible investing to develop a portfolio of stocks and bonds that fits your values. You might find one at http://www.socialinvest.org/directory (http://www.socialinvest.org/directory/)

I've been following this area for about forty years and also have a site that would be of help to you. It covers the latest global news and research on socially responsible investing (SRI) as well as offering a variety of services for small SRI investors. It's at www.investingforthesoul.com (http://investingforthesoul.com/)

Good luck and best wishes, Ron Robins
[info]theslate wrote:
Jun. 18th, 2008 09:09 pm (UTC)
Have you looked into peer-to-peer lending? You are limited to lending to Americans, but you can make a difference to individuals. For the US there's Prosper.com.
[info]kitty_tape wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 04:22 am (UTC)
Yes. It's intriguing but more effort.
[info]natacado wrote:
Jun. 19th, 2008 04:24 am (UTC)
I know it's not what you're asking for, but if you really want an easy place to start investing in some socially responsible setting, consider VFTSX. It's based on the FTSE4Good index, so you're still mainly just excluding companies that don't meet the criteria, but it's low-cost (0.24% expense ratio) and has a $3,000 minimum.
[info]kitty_tape wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 04:21 am (UTC)
Yeah, I probably will at some point.
[info]roconnor.myopenid.com wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 04:06 am (UTC)
Secondary Market
I argue that investing in "ethical funds" is a bad idea. The stock market is a secondary market and your purchases of company stock (ignoring voting rights) does not affect the company. They have already got their investment from their IPO and other public offerings. I'd rather see you invest your money in highly profitable ways, make more money, and use that money for good.
[info]kitty_tape wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 04:21 am (UTC)
Re: Secondary Market
And I care about the opinion of some random unknown person why?
[info]roconnor.myopenid.com wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 05:57 am (UTC)
Re: Secondary Market
I'm simply making an arguement that investing in "ethical funds" does not help the ethical companies, nor does it hinder unethical companies. If you think my reasoning if flawed, you can either point out the error in my reasoning, or you could describe how buying shares in an ethical company from another investor helps when said company isn't even involved in the transaction, or you can simply ignore me.

I'm just trying my best to help.
[info]kitty_tape wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 03:00 pm (UTC)
Re: Secondary Market
You see though, this is my LJ and, while it is technically a public forum, I see it as similar to a group of friends having a conversation in public. For you to just show up and start spouting opinions is just as rude as it would be in that forum, regardless of whether your opinions are right or wrong.
[info]kitty_tape wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 03:03 pm (UTC)
Re: Secondary Market
And, since I seem to be giving an etiquette lesson, I may as well mention the proper way to enter a conversation with those you do not know.

"Hello, I am so-and-so. I came across your post when something-or-another." This provides context for your presence. You then follow this with your actual point, but phrased in a polite way so as to show that you are aware you are a guest in this conversation without the full bluntness rights that come with being rightfully in the conversation.
[info]roconnor.myopenid.com wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 06:41 pm (UTC)
Re: Secondary Market
Hello, I'm Russell O'Connor. I'm a friend of [info]jcreed. I came across your blog via his friends list and I have been reading it for a while. Well, actually I'm not really friends with [info]jcreed. I don't think I have ever met the fellow. He just showed up on my livejournal one day unannounced, much like I have. Granted, I don't have a livejournal any more. I wonder if this is part of the problem. I haven't given you a link back to my blog <http://r6.ca/blog/> as would happen if I still had a livejournal account.

Anyhow, I have enjoyed reading your posts which often contain good ideas about being green and socially responsible; however, I believe it is a mistake to limiting your investments to "ethical funds" for the reasons I stated above.
[info]kitty_tape wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2008 11:52 pm (UTC)
Re: Secondary Market
Nice to meet you Russell and welcome. I certainly do not limit my investing to ethical funds, but I do believe that the right kind of ethical fund can be useful. I agree that investing in funds that just look for companies that are generally ethical is not particularly useful, which is why I am disappointed in the funds I find.

However, what I want is to find a fund that invests in companies whose primary concerns have to do with social responsibility. This is partially because it is a good thing to do and partially because, with the widening recognition of for-profit social investing and concern about developing environmentally positive products, I believe that there is potential for growth in these areas.

And I want a fund because I am lazy. =)

In the long run, I would prefer more direct and influential investing (e.g., being a direct investor in Grameen bank), but until I have a fairly large portfolio, I will not be able to invest in such an institution and keep my portfolio balanced.

Also, I have figured out why your original post bugged me so. It was the phrase "I'd rather see you" which displays a degree of intimacy that did not seem warranted.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jun. 21st, 2008 12:13 am (UTC)
Re: Secondary Market

Also, I have figured out why your original post bugged me so. It was the phrase "I'd rather see you" which displays a degree of intimacy that did not seem warranted. Sorry about that. I should have wrote "I’d rather see people […]". I guess part of the problem is that I’ve been reading your blog for a year or two which has lead me to feel familiar with you without you being at all familiar with me. I think this sense of familiarity on my part is increased by your informal and personal writing style (which is, of course, the natural format of a blog), as opposed to say how I might feel after reading editorial column for a year or two. I will try to be mindful of this in the future.

[info]roconnor.myopenid.com wrote:
Jun. 21st, 2008 12:16 am (UTC)
Re: Secondary Market

Also, I have figured out why your original post bugged me so. It was the phrase "I'd rather see you" which displays a degree of intimacy that did not seem warranted.

Sorry about that. I should have wrote "I’d rather see people […]". I guess part of the problem is that I’ve been reading your blog for a year or two which has lead me to feel familiar with you without you being at all familiar with me. I think this sense of familiarity on my part is increased by your informal and personal writing style (which is, of course, the natural format of a blog), as opposed to say how I might feel after reading editorial column for a year or two.

I will try to be mindful of this in the future.

PS oops, I screwed up the formatting by hitting submit instead of preview. Sorry.

[info]kitty_tape wrote:
Jun. 21st, 2008 07:12 am (UTC)
Re: Secondary Market
I will try to be mindful of this in the future.

But now I "know" ya. =)
( 23 comments — Leave a comment )

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